Why Star Wars Fanboys have blinders on, even when it comes to the Phantom Menace

I spent an hour today arguing with a Star Wars Fanboy who was under the delusion that George Lucas was a great storyteller and that Quinton Tarantino was not.

George Lucas... the maker of horrible but profitable films like The Phantom Menace, Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith.

Quintin Tarantino... the maker of masterful storytelling films like Reservoir Dogs, Pulp Fiction, Hateful Eight, Jackie Brown and more.

Clearly you can see which side of this argument I was on.

Now we should note that earlier in his career George Lucas did make some good films, back when he was more collaborative and less worried about maintaining his creative control. But later in his career he started to go downhill and started making films with horrible plots and his storytelling ability basically dropped off a cliff into a chasm of confusion and created lines like...

"I don't like sand."

And it created horrible characters like Jar Jar Binks.

George Lucas's lack of ability to create a cohesive story was basically being weighed down by his desire (greed) to have toy merchandising by introducing useless characters that were there just to sell toys to children... and bore no relevance to the plot.

Think back to Episode I, the Phantom Menace. Imagine how much better that film could be if they cut out Jar Jar from the plot completely.

And yet try explaining this to a Star Wars Fanboy... Oh boy...



So the whole argument began on Facebook when someone was talking about Star Wars VIII: The Last Jedi.

And I commented with the following:

I would compare Last Jedi to Kill Bill 2 in that a large part of the film was about Rey and Luke and their master/student relationship.

Interesting that in both films the SPOILER SPOILER and SPOILER SPOIL near the end of the film.

And then of course Luke does his Jedi Master thing and SPOILER before that, proving that he is still amazing.

To which a friend from high school responded:

I would not compare Last Jedi to Kill Bill 1 or 2 because both those movies were piles of Terentino crap and Star Wars is far better than anything from that director. Even the Ewok and prequel movies were better than Kill Bill. In my opinion.

 To which I posted the following GIF.

Because frankly that was so much nonsensical bullshit (and bad spelling) it deserved a GIF.

And he responded:

Kill Bill movies were terrible

 And I returned with another GIF...

 And he responded:

i would rather watch the star wars holiday special again than ever watch kill bill

 And so another GIF came out...

 And he goes:

I have not enjoyed a single Terrentino movie with the exception of Resivour Dogs. He is a hack that doesn't deserve the credit he gets.

maybe the holiday special was worse than kill bill but the prequels and ewok movies were definitely better than Kill Bill

 i will spell this out for you Quinton Terrentino is bad. Not Uwe Boll bad but definitely up there

i am going to stop this pointless arguement because we clearly have different views.

  
I followed with this GIF and the comment below:

No seriously, are you high? You misspelled both Tarantino and Reservoir. 

And argument.

 And then this argument went on for another hour (slightly more than that).

I tried to explain how good plots can be summarized in a single sentence and asked him to explain the plot of Phantom Menace in a single sentence.

Which he could not do. He eventually gave up and said the following:

you can't explain a star wars movie in one sentence because so much shit is going on. Unlike the shit that is Kill Bill. One Sentence. An unnamed woman goes on a revenge murder streak against her former lover and his friends after being left for dead.

You did it one sentence earlier for Episode IV. It is easy...

Luke and his friends rescue a princess, join a rebellion, and blow up a powerful spacestation that destroys planets.

I will do it again...

The Bride wakes up from a coma to find out her baby is gone and she goes on a revenge spree killing all the people she holds responsible.

Easy.

Proof that good films have easy to summarize plots.

And every time he realized he was in a losing argument he tried to claim he was stopping arguing, but kept coming back for more.

i am not continuing this conversation. As bad as the prequals were at least they weren't the equivalent of a fighting video game drawn out into two 2 hour movies like Kill Bill. At least when I play Street Fighter or mortal kombat the fights don't drag on for 20 minutes to a half hour each.


He tried that multiple times, but kept coming back.

i say again, I am stopping this argument. Sorry to everyone who has had to endure this.

I am not showing the full hour worth of messages he sent in which he kept trying to claim that Tarantino is horrible - never with any actual evidence - and kept sticking to his guns that Star Wars is always amazing and that George Lucas is a wonderful storyteller.

Okay so here is the problem with Star Wars.

It, like many other forms of good storytelling, is ripped off from other source material.

Here is an example.

Star Wars IV: A New Hope is just a rip off of The Hobbit.

Luke-Bilbo gets whisked away on an adventure by Gandalf-Obi-Wan and joins a group of miscreant dwarf-smugglers, and encounter space monster trolls/spiders/etc on the way. The get captured by imperial elf stormtroopers, having a daring escape and later Luke-Bard shoots the dragon-deathstar in the weak spot in its armour. The dragon-deathstar is destroyed, a lot of dwarf fighter pilots were killed, and Bilbo-Luke gets to ride on a Falcon-Eagle. He is showered with gold and medals.

The end.

See and now I just ruined that film for you forever. Maybe. Maybe not. It is still an awesome story.

 And that is just the way it is.

Some people point to the idea that there is a monomyth, that all stories are basically derivative of the whole good vs evil plot and that there are only so many versions of the good vs evil story. Episode IV is ripped off The Hobbit, samurai movies and a variety of other sources. In terms of detailed plot points, The Hobbit is closest to the actual plot.

Aha!

But that is what makes Quintin Tarantino films interesting. Instead of one plot they sometimes have multiple overlapping plots. Pulp Fiction and Hateful Eight are good examples of this.

And it takes a master storyteller to make overlapping plots like that work together as a cohesive unit.

George Lucas doesn't have the brain cells to even attempt such complexity... and yet... when asked to describe the plot of a Quintin Tarantino film, it is rather easy to do.

Pulp Fiction - Two hitmen working for a mobster have a series of misadventures, as does a boxer working for the mobster who ends up later rescuing him from rednecks.

Hateful Eight - Eight people, most of them strangers to each other and yet have reasons to hate each other, gather in a cabin during a storm where bloodshed ensues.

See? An accurate summary of the plots and yet anyone who has seen those films will know that they are far more complicated that what I just said.

So here is the thing...

Quintin Tarantino films do very well with critics and fans alike. Pretty much everyone likes them. My friend from highschool is clearly the exception to the rule.

But Star Wars films...

They are not that good typically.

Star Wars has had 3 horrible plot films out of a total of 9.

Episode I = BAD
Episode II = BAD
Episode III = BAD
Episode IV = GOOD, but ripped off from The Hobbit.
Episode V = GOOD
Episode VI = GOOD
Episode VII = GOOD**
Rogue One = Good*
Episode VIII = GOOD

So 3 out of the 9 films were bad. That is not a great batting average (yeah, using sports analogies when talking to nerds!)...

* Some people really don't like Rogue One, although I am okay with it. So if you consider it to be bad, then 4 out of 9 were bad.

** Some people also didn't like VII, but those people are clearly on crack.

But here is the things... those are not the only Star Wars films... if you included the 2 Ewok films and 1 Star Wars Xmas special... and unfortunately my friend from high school kept bringing those up, so I guess we should include them.

So if we include the 2 Ewok films + Xmas special then 6 or 7 out of the 12 films were bad. Depends whether you want to include those, but I guess you can blame my friend from high school who doesn't know when to not mention horrible films.

George Lucas himself hates the Christmas Special so much that he has gone out of his way to try and find and destroy every copy of it. Unfortunately with the internet it is now very easy to find.

Quintin Tarantino meanwhile has never been so embarrassed about one of his films that he has gone out of his way to actively destroy it.

Now if only George Lucas would realize his folly and destroy every copy of the Phantom Menace, etc.

Except there is one huge problem...

Star Wars Fanboys don't like to admit when they are wrong. They have blinders on when it comes to all things Star Wars.

Remember above when the Fanboy claimed that the Ewok films were better than Kill Bill...? Yep. He said that.

And the Ewok films were seriously bad... But don't take my word for it, let us look at some Rotten Tomato scores...

1984 - An Ewok Adventure = 25% on the Tomatometer. 44% of people Liked it.
1985 - The Battle for Endor = So bad that the Tomatometer is Not Available... 51% of people Liked it.
2003 - Kill Bill Volume 1 = 85% on the Tomatometer and 81% of people Liked it.
2004 - Kill Bill Volume 2 = 85% on the Tomatometer and 89% of people Liked it.

Clearly there is no contest between the films.

And yet you if you try to explain that or anything else to a Star Wars Fanboy you get anguished replies of denial...